That Apple plans to fill orders in those two populous countries at the same time that it’s still weeks behind fulfilling orders in the U.S. and elsewhere leaves little hope that Apple will catch up on backorders anytime soon.
The iPhone 5 may be fresh out of stock almost everywhere, but Apple is continuing its plan to bring the device to more countries.
Apple’s newest smartphone is reportedly set to go on sale in India on Nov. 2, according to a report in India’s Economic Times on Friday. But it’s not the only big country Apple’s planning to launch in soon: on Apple’s earnings call on Thursday, CEO Tim Cook told investors that the device would hit China sometime before the end of the year. That Apple plans to fill orders in those two populous countries –at the same time that it’s still weeks behind fulfilling orders in the U.S. and elsewhere — leaves little hope that Apple will catch up on backorders anytime soon.
The Economic Times report claims that the iPhone 5 launch had been pushed back in India, but that Apple is beginning to stock iPhone 5 inventory at several retail partners in the country in time for a launch next week. “A November 2 launch is certain and the stock is expected to start arriving at the master distributors Redington India and Ingram Micro within next two to three days” and pre-ordering will kick off in the next day or so, according to unnamed sources quoted by the Times.
A month after launch the iPhone 5 is for sale in 31 countries. But the wait is three to four weeks for a new device at many carriers and retailers, including Apple itself.
There are two issues plaguing iPhone 5 supply: intense demand coupled with a tricky manufacturing and building process. The company sold 5 million of the phones the first weekend it was available, but could likely sell more if it wasn’t having trouble getting them out of the factories in China. The builder of the iPhone 5, China’s Foxconn, says it’s the “most difficult device Foxconn has ever assembled.” The complicated design reportedly requires extreme precision when it comes to assembly.
Even when asked directly, Cook refused to say on the earnings call yesterday whether Apple would bring its iPhone supply in balance with demand by the end of 2012, which coincides with the all-important holiday sales period:
I’m not projecting whether supply/demand will balance, I’m saying I’m confident we’ll be able to supply quite a few [iPhone 5 units] during the quarter. But I can’t tell when that balance occurs, i can’t say. Demand is very robust.
That answer was certainly not a “yes.” The holidays plus India coming on board will be one challenge, but China is an even bigger beast. The country and its surrounding region represented 15 percent of Apple’s revenue in the last fiscal year, or about $24 billion. Apple’s products are in extremely high demand there — this is the country, after all, in which customers rioted and threw eggs at an Apple Store when it didn’t open on time for iPhone 4S sales earlier this year.
Apple has repeatedly reminded us that this is the company’s fastest rollout of a product yet. But that rollout hasn’t been without problems that could potentially sour customers on the brand if forced to wait weeks or months for something they’ve paid for. Granted, having outsize demand for your latest product is a problem most companies would kill to have.
Apple is changing the way it sells iPhones in India in an attempt to increase its tiny market share there, reports Dhanya Ann Thoppil in the Wall Street Journal.
The changes may help Apple sell some more iPhones, but they won’t fix the biggest problem Apple faces in India and other emerging markets: Its phones are just too expensive for many potential customers.
Apple’s market share in India right now is a startlingly low 1.2%, IDC says–and even that figure that has dropped by half in a year.
Samsung’s market share, meanwhile, has soared to a whopping 51%, double a year ago.
Part of Apple’s problem in India is distribution. According to the WSJ’s Thoppil, Apple doesn’t have retail stores in India because local regulations make this too much of a headache, and Apple’s resellers don’t have a big presence in the country. To supplement this distribution, Apple will begin selling iPhones through a local subsidiary of the vast electronics distributor Ingram Micro.
Apple’s bigger problem, however, is price.
The iPhone is sold mostly through India’s cellular carriers, but unlike carriers in many other countries, these carriers don’t subsidize handset costs. As a result, the iPhone is astronomically expensive.
India is a massive market, with 220 million handsets sold per year. But, as in other big developing markets, price is extremely important. Most of the phones sold in India cost less than $100, and according to an analyst cited by Thoppil, the high-end market is very small.
Selling iPhones through Ingram Micro could force Apple to give up more margin on the phones than it otherwise might.
But the larger issue here is that the smartphone market in the developed world is maturing, and the next few billion smartphone customers (in emerging markets) are likely to be much more price sensitive than the first billion.
If Apple wants to maintain its global market share, therefore, it may be forced to introduce lower-priced phones or sell its existing phones more cheaply. Apple could certainly afford to do this–it makes an extraordinary profit margin on each phone–but cutting prices would obviously eat into its overall profit margin.
The situation in India also reveals how dependent Apple is on carrier subsidies. As carriers try to increase their own profits, they’re trying to find ways to reduce the cost of these subsidies–by charging higher upgrade fees, for example, or reducing the frequency with which customers can upgrade. For now, the subsidy model appears to be holding steady, but if it were ever to start to disappear, the iPhone’s pricing could become a major issue for Apple.
Again, what’s at stake here is not Apple’s survival. The company is in robust financial health. What’s at stake is future growth, market share, and profit margin.
Apple already enjoys one of the highest corporate profit margins in history. And the downside of having a super-high margin is that, eventually, the only direction for that margin to move is down.
A few weeks ago, Apple introduced the iPhone 5 with its new, 4-inch screen, and last week Apple dropped a new line of large screen iPod Touches. The extra real estate is a boon for touch games. However, many old apps are bookended by black bars, waiting for their developers to release a screen-filling update. At present there’s not an easy way to determine which games use the entirety of the new screen, so we thought it’d be helpful if we picked some of our favorites to help guide you on your way.
Note: While all of these games have been updated on the iPhone 5, a few may still be waiting on new iPod Touch updates. But, according to the developers, they will arrive soon.
Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery
If you still haven’t played this artistically-inspired adventure game, now’s as good a time as any. No one has done pixel art quite like Capy and Superbrothers and the increased screen real estate means you can ogle the lush and dangerous wilderness without as much scrolling. This is the kind of game that belongs in an art gallery as much as in your living room.
Infinity Blade 2
In terms of raw graphical power, no one has been able to trump Infinity Blade 2 by Chair Entertainment. The developer’s parent company, Epic, designed the Unreal engine that powers IB2, so that probably gives them a bit of an edge. While the Infinity Blade series was always pretty playable on an iPhone, the wider screen does allow for easier gold hunting and spell casting.
It may not seem like much, but Jetpack Joyride supporting the slightly wider screen is a boon to high-score junkies. That extra split-second of reaction time may just mean the difference between a face full of laser and a pocket full of coins. The free price tag makes it even harder to pass up.
Minecraft Pocket Edition
Mojang’s blocky phenomenon has been on iOS for a while now, and every time I play I can’t help but feel a bit cramped. It is, after all, a PC game jammed on a much smaller screen. That’s still the case with an iPhone 5, but by pushing the virtual sticks to the far corners, you’ll have more space in the center to appreciate your mighty architectural creations.
This thoughtful word game has been charming the pants off audiences. The latest version makes full use of the new iPhone 5 / iPod Touch screen, though it doesn’t much impact gameplay, since you won’t be able to see more tiles on the screen. And yet, I find it a little less stressful to play when there’s some room to breathe around the edges. Don’t you?
Pinball Crystal Caliburn II
Seems like the new screen on the iPhone 5 and the iPod Touch was taylor made for a pinball game, doesn’t it? Well, many developers are still scrambling to take advantage, but Pinball Crystal Caliburn II has beaten them all to the punch. Play vertical and experience pinball the way it’s meant to be played. Well, the way it’s meant to be played on a touch screen, at least.
Gameloft has been getting more and more ambitious with their titles as of late, but it seems like screen real estate is always too cramped and your thumbs keep getting in the way of the action. Wild Blood, which works great on the iPad, was always too crowded on the iPhone. The latest update brings the resolution up to iPhone 5 levels and it makes all the difference. Just keep an eye on your battery levels!
Galaxy on Fire 2 HD
Like the Infinity Blade series, Galaxy on Fire 2 has always been on the front lines of a new hardware launch from Apple. It took FishLabs no time at all to support the new screens on the iPhone 5 and iPod Touch, and we’re left with what remains the best space sim on the App Store. This is another game that has always been cramped on anything but an iPad, but the extra space really, really helps.
It’s hard to imagine a game that would be more impacted by a taller screen that Doodle Jump. That extra layer of visible platforms means all the difference in the world if you’re trying to surmount your last high score. Sure, it’s not the prettiest game in the bunch, but it remains a heavy hitter, even after all these years.
Now that Apple iPhone 5 has been released on the market, and you are all looking to upgrade (or are you?), I would recommend picking up the truly spectacular, soon to be released, 24 karat gold editions, from London based Gold & Co. The black version comes in 24-karat gold plating and the white in 24-karat beautiful rose gold, and will set you back $4,380 USD.
Shortly after the iPhone 5 was released, some users began to complain that a purple flare appeared on pictures taken with the camera whenever it was pointed toward a bright light. Now, Apple is publicly acknowledging the problem with a response posted to its support page online:
Most small cameras, including those in every generation of iPhone, may exhibit some form of flare at the edge of the frame when capturing an image with out-of-scene light sources. This can happen when a light source is positioned at an angle (usually just outside the field of view) so that it causes a reflection off the surfaces inside the camera module and onto the camera sensor. Moving the camera slightly to change the position at which the bright light is entering the lens, or shielding the lens with your hand, should minimize or eliminate the effect.
Apple suggests in the response that flares can pop up on the edge of pictures taken with any iPhone — not just the iPhone 5 — though as you can see in the pictures Mashable took above, it appears that only the iPhone 5 has a purple flare. In any case, the solution Apple offers for any iPhone is simply to minimize the camera’s exposure to the bright light causing the flare.
This is the third big complaint Apple has been forced to address publicly about the iPhone in the past two weeks. First, users complained about the quality of Apple’s maps application for iOS 6, which eventually prompted the company’s CEO Tim Cook to issue an apology. Then, users complained that the new iPhone scuffs easily, which prompted the company’s SVP of marketing Phil Schiller to respond, noting that it’s “normal.”
The iPhone 5 is an excellent product, but it isn’t perfect. Here’s the good news: a lot of these issues could be addressed in an iOS 6 update.
Three weeks into using the iPhone 5, there’s an awful lot I like: the screen, the weight, the speed, and even features like turn-by-turn navigation, which has become my lifeline while moving out to the suburbs with a car. It is, without a doubt, my favorite iPhone. However, there are aspects I’d like to see addressed: Maps is at the top of the list, obviously. But there are also some small features in iOS 6 that could stand to be improved. And, there are some nonsoftware issues as well.
“Better reception or Wi-Fi quality” isn’t on my list, because I haven’t encountered those issues, although there are some people who have. Battery life isn’t on here, either, because the battery life on the iPhone 5 is about the same as on the 4S. Sure, it could be even better, but it’s on par with many other 4G phones, and good for its slim size. (I’d love to see a battery optimized model of the iPhone, like the Motorola Droid Razr Maxx, but I guess that will have to wait for iPhone 6 — or at least 5S.)
So, with those caveats firmly in place, here are the top things I’d most like to see fixed on the new iPhone. (And, yes — many of them are iOS 6 issues that can extend to the iPad, iPod Touch, and older iPhones as well.)
A change to Maps, sooner than later. Search is bizarre. Locations are wrong. You know this already; Apple knows this already. The company has made promises to improve Maps. Still, throwing some bone out in iOS 6.1 — be it baked-in public transit info, or any sort of improvement — would be a good first step. No time like the present.
Fix those scratches on the black iPhone. My review model was white, and I never sawscratching problems, even when I ran keys on the aluminum back. However, I’ve seen the scuffs on the black model’s slate-colored aluminum finish on the phone of someone here at the office. I’d like to see a return to basic silver-colored aluminum if it means scratches on the all-black model’s the alternative. If I were buying a black iPhone 5, I’d always use a case. The truth is, iPhone 5 owners better just get used to it, or get the white model instead…which I’ve found doesn’t scuff much at all.
Get those Lightning accessories out there, stat. So far, there just aren’t that many accessories. I’ve started hanging onto the included Lightning cable that came with the iPhone 5 like a lucky rabbit’s foot. iPhone 5 accessories need to become cheap and ubiquitous; as it is, they’re currently unreleased or impossible to find. Also, a small proposal: please find a way for video output to work via a 30-pin adapter, if possible.
Make it easier to see and access everything I own in iTunes. You should be able to see all your videos, music, and books without continually finding the nearly hidden “purchased” tab in the App Store and iTunes. iTunes Match solves that problem to some extent for those who subscribe, but purchased content should be visible like it is on Kindles, or in the Kindle and Amazon apps.
Clean up the new App Store and iTunes Store. The newly designed versions of both of these apps feel clunky and oddly laid-out, and have been more prone to crashing. Search tools in the App Store need to be improved, too. Plus, make a clear section for “iPhone 5” apps, as opposed to ones that haven’t been updated.
Add more services to the Notifications screen. This is still a relatively wasted resource on iOS 6, and the longer-screened iPhone 5could be taking advantage of it so much better. Could shortcuts to settings and a few more baked-in apps like Stocks and Weather be added in time for iOS 6.1? I’m doubtful, but hopefully more apps will take advantage of notifications screen integration.
Explain Passbook, and integrate it better. Passbook remains the “mystery app” that most people I know have no idea how to use. True, it relies on other apps and services to provide the digital tickets and coupons that fill Passbook’s virtual wallet, but how about an explanation, or even a starter coupon? It’s not intuitive. The Starbucks app now supports Passbook, and apps like Fandango do already. Hopefully that gets the ball rolling.
For this week’s Design Milk Dairy curated art collection picks, I decided to choose Fall-themed iPhone cases. Those of you who just got a brand new iPhone 5 will certainly find yourself needing a new case. Here are a few cool-weather-ish cases that might strike your fancy.
Art Deco Abstract Print Hot Pink and what not by Love2Snap – this is still a bit summery but I can’t help but hope that neons don’t die out come wintertime.
BONUS! This weekend – get FREE worldwide shipping at Society6 through Sunday (excludes framed prints and stretched canvases).
In an ongoing effort to support independent artists from around the world, Design Milk is proud to partner with Society6 to offer The Design Milk Dairy, a special collection of Society6 artists’ work curated by Design Milk and our readers. Proceeds from the The Design Milk Dairy help us bring Design Milk to you every day.
The spoofmasters from JLE are back with a fresh ‘banned iPhone 5′ parody for you to check out. These guys have been putting them out since the iPhone 4, likely in an effort to promote their advertising business.
And, as usual, they kill it with their hilarious deadpan reproduction of the iPhone 5 promo video. The best news? My favorite Head of Cameras, Rob Mansfield makes an appearance, despite his having been moved to special products by Apple’s CEO.
Seriously, I look forward to these things as much as Apple’s videos every year.
You can check out the group’s other Apple spoofs here, they’re all worth watching.
Apple’s next iPhone is official, and despite being the sixth iPhone model (technically), we know it’s officially the iPhone 5.
Over the last year, we’ve heard a ton of rumors about what it might deliver with LTE, a taller display, and a redesigned connector being the most likely tidbits. Fortunately, we now can put all that speculation to rest as Apple spilled the secrets.
Taller, thinner, and a metal back
As expected, the new iPhone is 18 percent thinner (0.30 inch vs. 0.37 inch thick) than the iPhone 4S. Apple says it’s the thinnest handset around, but that’s a race that changes often. That means it’s also 20 percent lighter for a total of 3.95 ounces. The Retina Display expands from 3.5 inches (its size since the original iPhone) to 4 inches. The total resolution remains the same, though, at 326 pixels per inch. The total pixel count is 1,136×640, and we now have a 16:9 aspect ratio.
To the user, that means a fifth row of icons on the home screen. That’s pretty nice since it will let you cut down on the number of home screens. You’ll also get a full five-day week view in the calendar, the calendar will show more events, and all iWork apps will take advantage of the bigger display. Third-party apps that haven’t been updated will continue to work, but you’ll see black borders on each side (so they won’t be stretched or scaled). Apple also promises that wide-screen movies will look better, with 44 percent more color saturation than on the iPhone 4S.
Touch sensors are now built into the display itself, which makes it 30 percent thinner as a result and less prone to glare.
The iPhone 5 also fixes a design flaw that we first saw in the iPhone 4. Apple replaced the glass back with one that’s mostly metal. Too many people (us included) cracked an iPhone 4 or 4Safter dropping it accidentally. We don’t think the change negatively affects the iPhone’s aesthetics. In fact, many might see it as an improvement. A return to a metal back reminds one of the original iPhone, and the crisp, clean-cut back has a bit of the feel of other Apple devices like the iPad.
All of the design changes result in a new iPhone that’s surprisingly light to hold. Think 20 percent lighter isn’t a big deal? Pick one of these up and you’ll feel the difference: the iPhone 4 may have been dense, but the iPhone 5 is a featherweight.
The screen is big, bright, and crisp, too, not shockingly so, but a subtly improved experience. It’s akin to being the extrawide comfy chair of iPhone screens. Stay tuned for more, but this new iPhone has a good hand feel.
LTE and carriers
Not a shocker either, but the iPhone 5 will support 4G LTE networks. That’s in addition to the current support for GPRS, EDGE, EV-DO, and HSPA data networks. LTE has a single chip for voice and data, a single radio chip, and a “dynamic antenna” that will switch connections between different networks automatically.
So which carriers will support an LTE iPhone 5? Well, in the United States that means AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon Wireless. So again, T-Mobile loses out. In Canada it’s Bell, Telus, Fido, Virgin, and Kudo. In Asia the providers will be SoftBank, SmarTone, SingTel, and SK Telecom. For Australia there’s Telstra, Optus, and Virgin Mobile, and in Europe it will go to Deutsche Telekom and EE. On carriers without LTE, the iPhone 5 will run on dual-band 3.5G HDPA+.
A faster chip
The iPhone 5 will offer an A6 chip, which is two times faster than the current A5 chip. Graphics will get faster speeds, as well. Yet, despite the speedier performance, the new chip will be 22 percent smaller than the A5. According to Apple’s specs, users will see Web pages load 2.1 times faster, and the Music app with songs will load 1.9 times faster.
More battery life
LTE tends to be a power hog, but the iPhone 5 is set to deliver respectable battery life. Of course, the real story may differ, but here’s what Apple is promising for now. We’re supposed to get 8 hours of 3G talk time, 8 hours of 3G browsing, 8 hours of LTE browsing, 10 hours of Wi-Fi browsing, 10 hours of video playback, 40 hours of music playback, and 225 hours of standby time. You can be sure that CNET will put these promises to the test when we get a device in our hands.
Apple promises respectable battery life, though the iPhone 5 has a larger display and LTE.
The main shooter, or the “iSight” camera, stays at 8 megapixels (with the best resolution being 3,264×2,448 pixels) with a feature list that includes backside illumination, a hybrid IR filter, a five-element lens, and a f2.4 aperture. A dynamic light mode is new, and you should be able to launch photography apps up to 2.1 times faster. Another addition is an image signal processor in the A6 chip. That will bring spatial noise reduction and a “smart filter” that produces better low-light performance and captures photos faster. Finally, there’s a built-in panorama mode that stitches shots together for one large 28-megapixel photo.
The secondary front camera now can shoot 720p HD video and it gets a backside illuminated sensor. And as we heard at the announcement of iOS 6 back in June, FaceTime will work over 3G cellular networks. Some carriers like AT&T have already announced restrictions for that feature, so be sure to check with your provider first.
Video resolution remains at 1080p HD, though image stabilization has been improved and face detection is now available in clips for up to 10 people. And in a nice move, you can take photos while you’re shooting video.
The iPhone 5 gets an additional microphone for a total of three. You’ll find one on the bottom, one on the handset’s front face, and one on its rear side. What’s more, the speaker now has five magnets (so up from two), which is apparently better and it’s supposed to use 20 percent less space. The noise-canceling feature should be improved, as well, and there’s a new wideband audio feature that promises more-natural-sounding voices. Twenty percent of carriers will support wideband audio, but so far we only know that Orange in the United Kingdom will be among them.
Smaller dock connector, smaller SIM card
On the bottom of the iPhone 5, there’s that new and long-anticipated smaller dock connector. Called “Lightning,” it has an all-digital, eight-signal design and an “adaptive interface” (we’re not quite sure what that means yet). It’s 80 percent smaller, and since it’s reversible, both ends will be the same (that’s kind of nice).
By all means, it’s bound to annoy owners of current speaker docks, accessories, and charger/syncing cables since it will render them obsolete. Apple will offer an adapter and adapter cables (of course it will), which range from $19 to $39. We imagine, though, that the adapter may be awkward to use with some current accessories like a bedside alarm clock/music player. For new accessories, Apple says that manufacturers like Bose, JBL, and Bowers are working on new products.
Though we welcome the idea of a smaller connector, we’re miffed that Apple couldn’t just adopt the semi-industry standard of Micro-USB. That would make things easier for smartphone users across the globe. Yet, even so, the smaller connector may be a smart move for the future. The 30-pin connector has been around since 2003, long before the iPhone even existed: frankly, it’s a dust magnet. A smaller connector helps shave extra space to achieve a smaller phone with perhaps a bigger battery. The new connector cable will mainly be used for syncing and charging by most people who own an Apple TV or Bluetooth/AirPlay accessories.
Inside, the iPhone 5 will debut with iOS 6 already onboard. Highlights include the new Apple Maps app, Passbook, shared photo streams, Siri updates, and the aforementioned FaceTime over 3G. For more on Apple’s newest mobile OS update, check out our iOS 6 First Take. iOS 6 will be available for download next Wednesday, September 19.
Release date and pricing
The iPhone 5 will be available in three capacity models, all of which will come in black and white versions. The 16GB is $199, the 32GB $299, and the 64GB $399. On September 21, it will go on sale in nine countries: the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, Hong Kong, and Singapore. Anyone in that first batch of countries can preorder starting September 14. More countries will follow by the end of this month, and by the end of the year, the iPhone 5 will land at 240 carriers in 100 countries. As a reminder, the U.S. carriers are the Big Three: Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint.
Is this the iPhone you’ve been looking for?
During very brief hands-on time with the iPhone 5, this much is clear: it’s the weight you’ll remember more than its thinner profile. The iPhone 4S is already a svelte device: most people probably won’t spot the difference if they see the new iPhone from the side.
The screen size, also, is more of a subtle improvement. This isn’t a jaw-dropping leap from the iPhone 4S: it’s a gradual increase, done almost so cleverly that the front face of the iPhone 5 might, with the screen turned off, look very much like the iPhone 4S. The proof will be in the pudding for how app developers and iOS 6 take full advantage of that extra screen real estate, but the bottom line is this: more screen size and more pixels are good things.
The real killer app on this phone — no surprise — might be the iPhone’s 4G LTE, as well as the promised battery life. If data speeds and battery life can live up to the promises, those alone will make many want to upgrade.
The iPhone 5 was introduced earlier today and with it came the news that it would support the super-fast 4G LTE network standard. This means that you’ll get blazing fast internet on the new device right out of the box.
But that’s not the amazing thing. That’s reserved for the battery life numbers that Apple delivered with LTE. The blazing fast speeds of LTE have long impressed users of smartphones like those from Motorola and Samsung, but one big issue has held back its growth: crap battery life.
This image, via The Verge, is the most incredible one of the event for those of us who follow LTE technology and battery life:
Apple says that the iPhone 5 gets 8 hours of 3G talk time, 3G browsing and up to 225 hours of standby time. The iPhone 4S, by comparison, had 8hr calls, 6hrs 3G, 9hrs WiFi and 200hrs standby time. The money stat, though? 4G LTE browsing clocks in at 8 hours.
That’s pretty good. Apple managed to upgrade the iPhone 5 to LTE and keep the battery life identical to the 3G iPhone 4S.
Apple doesn’t give the specs of its new battery beyond hours promised and blacks out the specs in its promo images, but leaks pegged it as a a 3.8V 5.4WHr battery with a 1440 mAh capacity. That’s a 2.8% increase in capacity over the iPhone 4S and it’s likely helped along by what is likely a new lower-power 28nm Qualcomm MDM9615 LTE chip.
But the real kicker? Apple managed to do all of that and still make the iPhone 5 7.6 mm thick, which is 18% thinner than the iPhone 4S and 20% lighter at 112 grams
To give you an idea how good this is, the brand new Droid RAZR M, which is a bit thicker than the iPhone 5, still only manages just under 7 hours on LTE. That’s decent, but not nearly as impressive as the thinner iPhone 5 (if it delivers on Apple’s promises).
Note that Motorola’s recently announced RAZR MAXX HD has far better battery life on LTE, but it’s also way thicker and heavier.
This was likely helped along by Apple’s new in-cell touchscreen, which laminates the touch sensor, the glass and the LCD all together for a thinner profile. that left more room for the battery and other components, while still making it nice and thin.